How to get Information on Greener Guns
Due to the time involved in researching our archives to provide customers with information about their guns we are introducing a small charge of £25.00 per gun for this service with effect from 20th August 2006. To provide information about a gun; we need the serial number of a gun (see 1. below), photographs (see 2. below) and payment.
Payment to accompany the request for information may be by cheque or International money order made payable to Greener Limited in pounds (£) sterling please. Alternatively payment may be made by VISA or Mastercard and for this method we require the following: name (as it appears on the card), full address including post code, card number, expiry date, three figure security code (last three figures on back of card in the signature block). Please note the credit card will be debited through our 'Virtual Business Centre' so this is the name which will appear on your credit card statement in due course. For security if paying by credit card send these details by post to Greener Limited, Poachers Pocket, Stoppers Hill, Brinkworth, Chippenham, SN15 5AW, United Kingdom, or fax: +44-1666-510898.
Alternatively Graham Greener's book, The Greener Story, is still available, see - Book. This will provide readers with details about most models, types and grades of Greener gun together with serial numbers and rough dates of manufacture. This book was written to aid gun enthusiasts, collectors, museums, gunshops and auction houses with enough information to be able to identify Greener guns themselves. For customers who have purchase a book, or for those customers who have already purchased a book any additional information on their guns will be provided free of charge providing they include the invoice number for their purchase of the book and date of purchase.
We acknowledge that a few old records are missing and so we need to ask clients for photographs of their guns to identify them properly. This may seem to be unfair - charging for information when the customer is supplying us with photos! But research and communicating the information does involve our staff in several time consuming tasks; going through existing catalogues; researching old records, books and periodicals, and; comparing photos with guns in our collection, or photos of guns in other collections.
The Information
What we will provide is a letter, or e-mail, with as many details about a gun that we can obtain from the research. This will generally provide the year(s) of manufacture (within a year or two) and the type, model and grade of gun, plus any other information we know from our experience in identifying guns which were made by the company and or members of the Greener family. While we can never be 100% certain of exactly what a client's gun may be without inspecting it at our works we can usually be 99% certain in determining the type, model and grade. We will also provide some general advice on how to assess the condition of a gun and safety aspects.
What is Required to Provide Information?
1. Serial Numbers
Sometimes it is difficult to determine the serial number of the gun from the number engraved on the furniture (metal tang to the rear of the trigger guard). This is because numbers become worn, making it difficult to distinguish between numbers, in particular 3, 5 and 8, and also between 1 and 7.
The serial number on all double barrel W W Greener guns is stamped in three places on the gun, on the top of the fore end, on the top of the action flats and on the underside of the barrels. It will be necessary to remove the fore end from the barrels and action, and also to remove the barrels from the action to reveal all these numbers.
On single barrel guns of the same construction the serial number will be in the same places, but on Martini action rifles and shotguns it will be stamped on the underside or side of the barrel and on the action. Sometimes on single barrel shotguns the number is also stamped on the fore end wood where it meets the action body.
All serial numbers on an individual gun should be the same. If any of these numbers is different from the others then contact us for advice.
On muzzle loading guns (by William Greener, W W Greener and J H Greener) the serial numbers are stamped on the underside of the barrels. Sometimes the serial number is stamped on the ramrod also. The barrels will need to be removed from the stock and fore part of the gun to reveal them. A sliding catch in the fore part of the wood will allow the barrels to be lifted up and removed form the breech after cocking the hammers.
Albert Greener guns have the serial numbers stamped on the wooden part of the top of the fore end and on the bridge of the action flats but it may be absent from the barrels. Albert probably made only a few genuine guns and there are many forgeries - see 3. below.
2. Photographs
Photographs need to be of good quality and resolution, and in focus. If taken on a digital camera and the files are greater than 500KB each, please put all photos on a CD and send them to us at the address below. If photos are taken on a traditional film camera then you will also need to send the prints to us. The photographs we require to be able to identify guns are as follows:
A. Side views of action from both sides. Top view of action with barrels removed. Front view of action with barrels and fore end removed. Underside view of action showing cover plate (if fitted).
B. Top view of breech end of barrels with action and top lever/top safety catch etc., (if fitted), particularly if there is any gold inlay work on the top lever. Side view of barrels (removed from action and fore end) towards breech end showing barrel lumps. View of rear of barrel lumps. View of front of barrel lumps. View of bottom of barrel lumps. Close up views of all marks, symbols, numbers and letters on bottom of barrels.
C. Top view of fore end. Rear view of fore end. Side view of fore end, Underside view of fore end.
D. Side view of each side of the stock. Close up of any escutcheon or oval with any insignia engraved on it if this is fitted to the stock, usually on the underside but may be behind hammers, on on top of the stock, on William Greener guns.
E. Any general views of the gun, plus photos of interior and exterior of a gun case, if there is one.
Notes
We have most of the production records for W W Greener guns made after 1880 and up to the present day. So by providing us with the serial number of a gun we can usually provide details of the type, model, grade, and when it was made. Although we also have some records going back to 1875 these are not in chronological or numerical order, so searching for specific guns in these records is too time consuming to reveal much if any, useful data. However, if we do not have the records for a particular gun it is still possible to determine the type, model and grade from good quality photographs - see 2. below.
For William Greener sporting muzzle loading shot guns and rifles there are no written records, but we have a good knowledge of most of the guns he made between 1829 and 1869, from collections and known examples where the provenance and therefore dates of manufacture are known. It is possible to determine the approximate age (within a year or two) of a William Greener gun from the serial number stamped on the underside of each barrel and to a lesser extent by the proof marks. Additionally some guns have the year of manufacture stamped on the bottom of the barrels or on the escutcheon. But to determine the grade it will be necessary to supply photos similar to those listed for W W Greener guns below.
For Albert Greener and Joseph Henry Greener guns it will be necessary to supply photographs for identification as no written manufacturing records exist.
Forgeries
There are many forgeries of W W Greener and Albert Greener guns. Most of these are of Belgian or Australian origin and are fairly easy to determine. If anyone has any doubts about the originality of a Greener gun they are invited to contact us so we can determine if the gun is genuine or not. Again while we cannot be 100% certain that a gun is a forgery (unless examined in our works) we can usually be 99% certain of authenticity from photos, providing all the photographs required are supplied.
Please note we do not accept any responsibility for any gun not of our manufacture nor any gun of our manufacture which has been modified or altered in any way by others for whatever purpose. It has come to our attention that certain gunsmiths have fitted rifle barrels to some of our shotgun actions without submitting these for 'proof', to ensure they are safe to use. Recently we saw two 'rifles' made up from Greener GP shotgun actions and large caliber rifle barrels. These were being passed off as 'Presentation' grade guns. Our company has never made Presentation grade rifles with Martini type actions. It is understood that these originated in Australia but that they may have been marketed in the United States of America - buyers beware!
Address to send serial numbers and/or photos to obtain information on guns:
Greener Limited, Poachers Pocket, Stoppers Hill, Brinkworth, Chippenham, SN15 5AW, United Kingdom.
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